Welcome back to the Warbreaker reread! Last week, we met a grumpy old man with a bizarrely cheerful sword. This week, we meet the Idrian royal family, and are introduced to the political tensions which will drive much of the plot.
This reread will contain spoilers for all of Warbreaker and any other Cosmere book that becomes relevant to the discussion. This is particularly likely to include Words of Radiance, due to certain crossover characters. The index for this reread can be found here.
Click on through to join the discussion!
Chapter 1
Point of View: Siri, Dedelin
Setting: Bevalis, capital of Idris
Timing: Day 1
Take a Deep Breath
In Chapter 1, Siri returns home from a walk in the hills, comfortable in her status as the unimportant youngest princess. Bevalis is a humble city, more like a village, with muddy streets, thatched roofs, and everything in shades of tan and grey. She teases a few children with the gift of several colorful flowers, then enters the palace kitchens where old Mab is cooking. Siri teases her too, and begins to help with the meal preparations, but on learning that her father is in a meeting with his top general, she decides to go for a ride. After all, the punishment for her truancy will be the same either way—she’ll be sent to the kitchen to help Mab—and her father doesn’t know she enjoys it.
Meanwhile, Dedelin meets with Yarda, his general and chief advisor. He has received a letter from Hallandren, reminding him that it is time to fulfill the terms of the treaty which has, so far, kept them from war. Vivenna, the eldest, has now turned twenty-two, and it is time to send her to be the God-King’s wife. He dreads sending her, fearing she will be used as a hostage, but Idris is ill prepared to fight an invading Hallandren force at this point. Though Dedelin is reluctant, Yarda is firm that they need the time the marriage will buy them. Vivenna herself, perfectly in control as always, is ready to go and suggests that she leave before Siri returns; however, just then Siri returns from her ride, behaving in all the ways inappropriate to an Idrian princess, and Dedelin makes up his mind: Siri, not Vivenna, will marry the God-King.
Breathtaking
General Yarda shook his head. “War is coming, Your Majesty. I feel it in the winds and read it in the reports of our spies. Hallandren still considers us rebels, and our passes to the north are too tempting. They will attack.”
“Then I shouldn’t send her,” Dedelin said, looking back out his window. The courtyard bustled with people in furs and cloaks coming to market.
“We can’t stop the war, Your Majesty,” Yarda said. “But… we can slow it.”
Dedelin turned back.
Yarda stepped forward, speaking softly. “This is not a good time. Our troops still haven’t recovered from those Vendis raids last fall, and with the fires in the granary this winter…” Yarda shook his head. “We cannot afford to get into a defensive war in the summer. Our best ally against the Hallandren are the snows. We can’t let this conflict occur on their terms. If we do, we are dead.”
This is, in essence, the set-up for the entire novel. This is why all the things are done—at least, as far as we know until almost the end of the book.
Local Color
Annotations this week concern tone, character origins, ramblemen, Idrian beliefs, Mab the cook, and the scene between Dedelin & Yarda.
Brandon notes that his agent disliked the tone shifts between the Prologue and Chapter 1, and also throughout the book. It goes from dark (Vasher) to whimsical/romantic (Siri) to glib/comedic (Lightsong) to unpredictable (Vivenna). Brandon kept the dramatic shifts anyway, because he likes it and because it suits the vibrancy and contrast of a color-centric world.
The origins of Vivenna and Siri are found in an unfinished novel called Mythwalker—the only book Brandon never finished writing. It was boring, he says, centered on a standard fantasy trope of the peasant boy who finds himself caught up in things too big for him and inheriting a powerful magic. You can see for yourself whether you find it boring; it’s all on his website. He did, however, find that his alpha readers liked the subplot of cousins who accidentally traded places so the wrong one ended up marrying the emperor. Trope or not, this one clicked because of the characters; eventually he decided to use their story for Warbreaker. The annotations include interesting reflections on when and how to blend originality with archetypes.
Ramblemen receive mere mentions in the book, and apparently many readers thought they ought to be more. The response is that sometimes, you use an evocative concept to hint at the greater world, and you don’t have to—or even want to—develop it into any more.
If you notice that some Idrians beliefs about Awakening don’t seem to match what we have or will observe in practice, this is intentional. Through fear, tradition, and misinformation, the Idrians have weird ideas about magic. Their drabness isn’t the safeguard they think—there’s still plenty of color that could be used for Awakening. Even if they knew, though, they probably wouldn’t change, if only for the sake of contrast with Hallandren.
Mab the cook has A Backstory—which is why she knows more than a cook should. You really ought to go read the annotation in full; she has experience with Hallandren, both good and bad. Courtesan, Drab, Madam, Cook, she’s pretty much run the gamut.
The final annotation is mostly Brandon explaining the continuing debate he has with himself over whether the scene between Dedelin and Yarda is too long or too short. He wanted it to be long enough to give the reader a sense of the desperation that would induce a good man to make the decision Dedelin makes; on the other hand, he didn’t want it to make Dedelin seem like a more major character than he’s ever going to be. These are fine lines to walk.
Snow White and Rose Red
Our first look at the Idrian Royal family comes from the “unimportant” youngest princess, Siri, who enjoys being the redundant one. She’s the one without a destiny determined by her place. Vivenna is to be the God-King’s wife, Ridger is to inherit the throne of Idris, Fafen is the family’s requisite monk, and Siri just gets to be Siri—troublesome and irresponsible, but never seriously so. Dedelin, the King, frequently finds her irritating, but he’s also not inclined to make it an issue. She is, after all, the redundant one.
Bevalis, capital of Idris, draws an odd mixture of emotion from Siri. She likes the homey feeling of this place that’s barely more than a village, a place where she knows everyone and can just be herself. On the other hand, she loves color, and the Idrians have done everything they can to diminish color, along with anything else that would stand out. In Idris, standing out—drawing attention to yourself—is the worst social (or perhaps religious) crime in existence. Even the palace only stands out by its size; it’s a low, single-story building, but it has to be large to encompass the meeting hall and to function as the administrative center of the kingdom.
The contrast between Siri and Vivenna is as stark here as it’s ever going to get. Here, at home in Bevalis, they are exactly what they’ve always practiced to become: Vivenna is calm, careful, composed, and controlled; Siri is bubbly, spontaneous, irrepressible, and emotional. I find it interesting—and perfectly human—that in their home environment, they reflect very contrasting characters, but later, in a challenging and uncomfortable place, they will each become much more like the other—or like the other’s habitual behavior, anyway. We’ll be watching this development.
One of the delights of Warbreaker is the Royal Locks, which portray the differences in the sisters’ character beyond merely words and actions. Vivenna, the controlled one, keeps her hair a perfect black; apparently this is the color which reflects no emotion, and she is able to govern her hair and her emotions so that no one can tell what she really feels. By contrast, Siri at her most disciplined can barely manage a dull brown. Left alone, her hair goes from joyful blond, to a slightly embarrassed (or is it angry? or both?) red tinge, to fearful whitening, back to excited blond, to exhilarated deep blond and finally to a flame-colored red, emotion unknown. Dedelin, for what it’s worth, mostly keeps his hair black, except when he is angry and frustrated with Siri; then a few locks bleed from black to red.
It’s delightful to read, but it would be a right pain to live with—as bad as having spren around, showing everyone when you’re afraid or embarrassed.
Clashing Colors
As quoted above, Idris is on the verge of a war they will inevitably lose. Hallandren is larger, better equipped, and has magic; if they invade, they will win. Dedelin has spent his entire 20-year reign focused on keeping this war from happening, starting with the treaty he now has to fulfill or forfeit. The frustrating thing is that even with the treaty in place, he can see that war—and defeat—is unavoidable. Twenty years ago, he promised his then two-year-old daughter to be the Hallandren God-King’s wife when she turned 22. It only worked because the old royal line of Hallandren had long ago fled and become the royal line of Idris; the marriage would return true royal blood—as evidenced by the Royal Locks—to Hallandren.
In the intervening years, the treaty has helped to keep the war at bay, but only helped; much additional work has gone into placating the enemy. The Pahn Kahl rebellion had afforded some hope that attention would turn away from Idris, but that failed at a time, and in a way, that left Hallandren even more wary of enemies. Dedelin has lived with the knowledge that Hallandren could abandon the treaty and invade any time they wanted. He also knows that once the treaty is fulfilled, all bets are off; his daughter will at best become a hostage for any demands the Hallandren choose to make. His choice is to forfeit the treaty, which will surely appear to invite war, or to fulfill the treaty, placing his daughter in the hands of the enemy.
Yarda offers hopes of alliance with other nations, and perhaps a resurgence of Vahr’s broken rebellion, if he only has enough time. Dedelin knows perfectly well, I think, that these hopes are tenuous at best, and yet he must take any chance given him to protect his people. Whatever wisdom he may or may not have, Dedelin and his family take responsibility for their kingdom very seriously; they will do whatever it takes to keep their people safe and free.
Background Color
There are two vague references to the Manywar: one, that Tedradel has hated Hallandren since that time, and two, that the royal family fled to the Idris highlands at the climax of the Manywar. While this tells us very little, it provides an anchor for what’s to come.
Like Fresh Blue Paint on a Wall
We get just a few Idrian idioms this week. “Austre help me…” “For Austre’s sake!” “Lord God of Colors.” Appropriate, for a very devout people, that their exclamations center around Austre, God of Colors.
Exhale
There are just a few random notes to review, and some thoughts on Dedelin’s decision.
Random note one: I find it amusing that the Idrians worship Austre, God of Colors—but they avoid color like plague. As per the annotations, part of this is a misguided attempt to make it hard for Awakeners to function here. A greater part, though, seems to be a strong objection to pride, arrogance, or attention-seeking. I’m… not sure what I think of this. It sounds pretty good when you put it like that, but in practice it looks much less admirable. There seems to be no room for any kind of beauty except Dedelin’s “beauty in simplicity.”
Random note two: This may come up in the annotations eventually, but I’m going to point it out right here. We know that Brandon likes to play with naming conventions, and most of his worlds have two or three “styles” of names. (E.g., in the Stormlight Archive, there’s one convention resulting in names like Kaladin, Adolin, and Dalinar, which is based on a primary name and a suffix; there’s another based on symmetry, which results in names like Shallan and Ialai.) In Warbreaker, the most noticeable effect, whatever its root, is the repeated consonant at the beginning of a name. Sisirinah, Vivenna, Dedelin, etc. In those cases, the repeated consonants are separated by an unstressed vowel. We will soon see some similar names where the consonants are instead separated by an apostrophe, such as T’telir . I’ll actually deal with this more later, when we meet another character with this name construction, but for now I’ll merely point it out.
Random note three: So far, there is very little individual description, other than rebellious royal hair. I think that made Yarda’s description stand out a little:
The burly man stood waiting, his hands clasped behind his back, his thick beard tied in three places.
Again, it’s not an important thing, but I really like noticing the little details like the beard.
Finally, a few thoughts on Dedelin’s decision at the end of the chapter. I can respect the self-awareness that says, “Vivenna means so much to me that I would never be able to stand against someone who held her hostage. I realize that I would forsake all my responsibilities and commitments just to keep her safe.” And I can respect the determination that as king, he has to be king first and father second; he must place the security of his people first, and so he dare not risk putting himself in a position where he knows he would choose his daughter’s safety over the lives of his people. At the same, time… “Vivenna, you will not go to wed the tyrant god of our enemies. I’m sending Siri in your place.” That just freaks me out. “I love my eldest daughter too much to risk allowing her to be a hostage. Here, take my youngest; she’s expendable.”
That’s probably deeply unfair to Dedelin, but seriously, it creeps me out. It just seems so wrong—especially since it seems to be made on the spur of the moment and without asking either of the girls how they feel about it. There are aspects of his thought process I can admire, but the end result just bothers me.
Of course, without it, there wouldn’t be much of a story. So there’s that.
Okay, that’s it for the blog—now it’s time for the comments! Join us again next week, when we will cover Chapter 2 and its annotations, in which Siri rides toward Hallandren and Vivenna tries to figure out what her place in life is, now that she has been made redundant.
Alice Arneson is a SAHM, blogger, beta reader, and literature fan. If you Facebook, you can join her in the Tor-Sanderson-rereader-specific group known as the Storm Cellar; since it’s a closed group, you have to ask to join. Identify yourself as a Tor friend, and one of the moderators will add you.
I have to say that the tonal shift works for me in this case – almost gives it a more…cinematic quality, kinda like a pre-intro credits scene, followed by a calmer, quieter, character-driven one. Something to hook you onto the premise, raise the heart rate, and then slow it down and say “let’s explain…”. Other than that, I don’t have too much to say about the first chapter, other than that it gives nice characterisations of both people and environment. I really liked the use of the name “Austre” as their God, since it’s a nice play on the word austere, which very well represents their culture and religion – and the irony he’s the God of Colours makes it all the better for me. I will hopefully have more to say, but in the meantime, back to work!
It’s good to see I’m not the only one who took Austre as austere. I did think it rather intentional.
And I find I need to re-read the chapter before further comments.
Thanks, Alice!
I, too, associated the Idrian deity, Austre, with ‘austere’ since that is characteristic of the religion. In addition, I find Siri to be an anagram of ‘iris’, the color of her eyes.
A minor correction to the post, Shallan is not an example of symmetry in a name, much less – a palindrome. Perhaps Alice was thinking of Shalash, the leading female Herald on Roshar, or Laral – Kaladin’s childhood girlfriend. I also note that Zahel (Vasher) is an anagram of Hazel which may refer to his eye color – although I don’t recall that being mentioned in the SA series thus far.
It’s cold, but it both recognizes the reality of the danger of putting his favorite daughter into danger and recalls a thought he’d had earlier in the chapter:
@3 Don’t forget, perfect symmetry was considered profane, so names were almost symmetrical. Sadeus reflects that Ialai’s profane name is part of what drew him to her.
Before I write more, I want to point out that the header still links to Stormlight Archive goodies instead of Warbreaker goodies. I noticed it last week too, but forgot to point it out. :P
Kalaxin @3 – The reference to Shallan is not a mistake. The Vorin fascination with symmetry results in most of the Heralds having palindromic identifiers which have evolved from their original names: Nalan, Chanaranach, Vedeledev, Pailiah, Shalash, Battah, Kalak (or Kelek), Talenelat, Ishi. (Note that this requires use of the letter h as a substitute for whatever you need, as explained in TWoK) Many devout Vorins like to give their children (especially girls, IIRC) palindromic names but with one letter/sound changed, so as not to be to arrogant in claiming perfection for their child. Ialai is very unusual in having a perfectly palindromic name. Shallan is a much more typical approach: based on Shalash, but with the last sound changed to be just-not-quite-perfect.
ETA: ZAD-Man @5 – Rats. That was supposed to be changed to general Cosmere or Sanderson stuff, but I spaced and forgot to finish my editing. I’ll fix it. Thanks!
I also like the contrast between the characters voicing the chapters. It lets you know approximately what to expect in each chapter, especially if you’re coming back to it after some time away.
Also, though there isn’t much I like the way the genders have different social expectations: when Vivenna comes into the meeting she is expected to be seated, while Yarda remains standing after the masculine fashion. Nothing as complex as what we see on Roshar, but at least in Idris there are certain forms that are appropriate. (I don’t remember if that holds in Hallandren as much, probably not as they are more ‘progressive’.)
After looking at the beginning places of the sisters in this chapter again, it’s a dang good thing that Siri gets sent instead of Vivenna. She is so set in her ways that it would have broken her completely to have to live (and dress) normally in the palace of the God King.
@@@@@ Alice, 1&2: I do have to wonder at Brandon’s thought process for Austre. He wanted a colorful world contrasted with the harsh one. So did he write austere home town for the girls….wait, that can be the name of their colorful god!! Austre! Eureka!
It’s such a play on words for us. The choice had to be deliberate.
Also happy he changed it from the whole poor / rich relation into a responsible / irresponsible relation trope. An unimportant princess who has had some training is much more believable than a poor backwoods relation pretending to be a princess. Sorry the levels of education and behavior for a society of that type of era would be too great for a seamless swap.
I see the Red locks as the anger / uncomfortable emotion reflection – so shame, embarrassment, maybe even shyness.
But it really does make me wonder. If the Returned KNEW they could sire children, would more people be like the Royals? Like a metalmind. Once you know what it does, you can tap its power. But if you believed it was a simple coin, it remained a coin with no powers.
@@@@@3: I like your point about Siri and iris. If nothing else it will help me not misspell her name. A colorful name for a colorful character.
@@@@@ Alice: Like you, I’m glad the sisters moved to a middle distance of behavior. Vivenna was way too controlled. Her father even thought it, she had no childhood.
Or were the Royals the only descendant of a Returned person?
I’ve always wondered if the Royal Locks were restricted only to natural(ish) hair colors. I imagine that when they reflect emotions, they are, but the hair could be intentionally colored any way.
I read the first few chapters of Warbreaker in a bookstore and wasn’t able to buy it at the time. Then I came across the online version and read a bit more of it, but I never finished until I bought it a few years later. So I have a weird dislike of the beginning which is mostly due to familiarity – it’s always the part of the book I remember least that I enjoy most on rereads.
The comparison between controlling one’s Royal Hair color and having emotion-spren appear around you might go deeper into Cognitive Realmatics than just a coincidence. It occurs to me that, just as the Locks are one form of magic on Nalthis, controlling one’s state of mind in order to produce certain spren results is yet another form of “magic” on Roshar — one that anyone can attempt and learn. (Tyn is remarked upon as being especially good at it, in her con woman role.) Interesting.
Dedelin’s decision definitely creeps me out too, for all that it leads to a good story and superior results in the end. I have a hard time respecting him as a person because of this, for all that Brandon hints (in the Annotations) that “if you knew him better, you’d realize that he’s a good king and a good man.” Ugh, poor Siri. Does the text ever focus on how she feels specifically about the implication that Dedelin doesn’t love her as much as her sister?
One nitpick: Did we really meet “a grumpy OLD man” last week? I don’t recall the text portraying Vasher as old in Warbreaker. I mean he’s lived a long time, of course, but Returned are kind of ageless (depending on their Cognitive self-perception). I ask because I always thought it was interesting how much he aged himself between Warbreaker and when we see him as Zahel. (Do we know how much time passes between the two? I know it’s less than 300 years, but my impression was that it’s 200+ years; plenty of time for “Zahel’s” self-perception to evolve.)
I admit, I like the way this chapter sets up the plot, but is it just me, or does Bevalis seem… improbable in how tiny and poor it is? When we later see T’Telir, it looks almost like a metropolis, yet the capital of Idris is described like a village of some medieval jarl. I understand austerity, and I understand that it deliberately contasts greatly with T’Telir, but it still strains my suspension of disbelief.
Re: Dedelin’s decision: It’s been a while since I read, but I don’t remember the decision being particularly problematic. I feel like it was set up well enough that he really didn’t want to lose Vivienna, and his rash decision was more with him just being really super fed up that Siri wasn’t being more “proper”. Like, sending her to marry the Emporer would make her finally take her role seriously. Keep Viv around and make Siri more princess-like. Kill two birds with one stone, as they say.
I’m not saying I’m okay with that kind of emotional split-second decision making, but that’s what I saw it as, and as such could understand it and didn’t see anything overly “wrong” or creepy about it.
I do however remember disliking Siri a whole lot, and was quite chagrined when starting to learn that she would be our main character. She gets a bit better, and I was also glad we got to keep seeing more of Viv. As for why I didn’t like Siri–just like pretty much every single one of Sanderson’s snarky female protagonists, I just don’t like them. Vin, Sarene, Siri, all of them just immediately set my teeth on edge. It’s hard to explain why, but I’d say it’s partly because they’re all almost the same person, and secondly because I just feel like they’re trying too hard. Their characteristics are so overblown and feel so painted-on that I just can’t help seeing them as fake. Even Shallan was dangerously close to this (I sighed and rolled my eyes at her intro, thinking it was Serene reincarnated) but thankfully she got much better and is a wonderfully deep character.
It might also have something to do with me being the eldest, and raging against younger siblings who can never take anything seriously =)
It’s probably just me, but all I can say is, I never had much faith in Sanderson’s female protagonists until Shallan (and Jasnah, goodness, she’s the best).
Also random, I love Sanderson’s different naming convention when they come into play. That SA one with the palindromes is just so cool, and I hadn’t really noticed the other ones but yet again I am amazed at some of the stuff he comes up with.
@10 McKay B, @12 naupathia
Good king? Quite possibly. Good man? Unlikely. Good father? Definitely not.
One of his daughters skipped her entire childhood so that she could obsessively prepare for her forced marriage to her kingdom’s most hated enemy. He blames the other for not being “proper” enough when he probably wasn’t willing to devote the time or energy needed to teach her. Also, what kind of father only cares about how “princess-like” his daughter is?
@Alice If I remember correctly at one point Vivi realizes that her own country’s refusal to use color is ALSO arrogance. it is basically saying “We are much better then you because we are more pious then you.
So, not tons from me this chapter.
I’m glad others are picking up on the emotional emotive aspects of the connection between magic here and on Roshar- with the hair and spren aspects – because it makes me feel less like I’m just seeing things.
Based on this chapter alone, it seems there are a lot of cultural and magical connections tying Nalthis and Roshar together, much more than the other systems/worlds in the Cosmere.
As Stormlightchick points out – there is a correspondence in the gendered roles – it certainly isn’t as stark as on Roshar. But it is certainly there (and unsurprising given the reality that many RL cultures do such things), whereas I don’t remember any distinct type of gendered social norms highlighted in other Cosmere books (who wants to do a quick reread of everything and tell me that I’m wrong? :P).
In addition, the line describing the Idrians (“Composed, simple, hard, and capable. Idrian”) seemed like it fit well with the description and nature of the Ardentia. Just sayin’.
I still think I am seeing things that might not fully be developed, but may just be there (either consciously or subconsciously) because Brandon constructed this as a “prequel” for a character he was putting into SA. However, there is enough of a resonance, that it makes me want to speculate on a Cosmere closeness between the two. (Because SPECULATION!)
On Idrians vs Hallandrens – they seem to be very much involved with defining themselves in opposition to the other – i.e. Austrinism very much seems to be a monotheism that is being sustained by its differentiation from the polytheism of Hellandren. Boundary maintenance by Othering the Other so as to centralize and strengthen your own center.
Lastly, Dedalin has an interesting thought:
This seems interesting – there is something going on, but is it more than we or Dedalin might think – either politically or theologically? i.e. we know there is more going on politically, but is Endowment also sending back more “erratic” individuals or is this perception the result of the court politics? Probably mostly the latter, given the glimpses of the gods we will get, but again – cosmere speculation is so fun, and to think that the Shard might be doing something on purpose for some reason is an intriguing line of thought. Especially given the pre-cognition of Lightsong with his upcoming visions, etc. Is this all a long-game ploy of Endowment to free the God-king from the control of the priestly caste by throwing randomness into play (a la Lightsongs winning at the lawn-bowling game by throwing random pieces randomly)? Could easily connect this to the broader cosmere by speculating that a strongly Endowed Awakener may be a significant piece in a defense against any intrusion by Odium or his agents.
Meh, probably tons wrong with this line of thought….
Maybe we’ll get more of this later – I honestly don’t remember a lot of details from this book, having read it only once – but who is Austre and where does he live? We know where the Hallandren gods live. The two kingdoms have common cultural ancestry, so if they use the term god for the corporeal inhabitants of the court, it seems Austre is corporeal as well, or they’d use a different word for him.
@16, I think Austre’s supposed to be incorporeal – likely, it’s supposed to be how Idrians understand Edgli/Endowment. As to why they call the Halladren gods “gods”, well, Christians call greek deities “gods” even though the concept is somewhat different from that of the Christian God. For all intents and purposes, Austre and the Returned are both considered divine by their respective cultures, so why would they have different names?
It occurs to me on this cycle through the book: royal families need spares. It is not an unimportant role, because people die. Also, even among royal families half or so of children died before reaching majority, before modern medicine and sanitation. Idris doesn’t use magic, so it should be a huge surprise that none of the Royal children died. Of course, we know it’s because they have part of a Returned soul and its power, but they don’t know that.
The tonal shifts in this book are sometimes exceptionally striking. More later…
I wish we had seen more of Siri and her life pre-marriage. “Irresponsible tomboy princess with a girly-girl sister” is such a trope by now that perhaps it didn’t need much establishing before its ultimately-great subversion by forced role flippage commenced. But I feel we didn’t really get to know that side of her, so it didn’t feel like as much of a personality change as Vivenna’s more gradual one. Slowly setting up a trope for subversion can be very effective. Like how Mistborn set up a standard plot and then flipped it on its head…and did that again…and again. Or how the Parshendi spent a whole book as a simple “monster horde” because that’s how humans perceived them, before their own perspective subverted it magnificently…and then reverted it heartbreakingly.
I was intrigued by this forcibly-drab city where people craved color from the outer world, and wish again that we had spent more time there. Sanderson excels at creating uniquely hostile environments, though this one is less extreme than most of them.
Aside from their color-shifting hair and height difference (Fafen is said to be between them in height as in everything else), I don’t recall much description of Siri and Vivenna’s appearances, so have trouble picturing them. At least there’s fanart.
I was really miffed at Dedelin for seeking to save one daughter from what he (not-wrongly) believed was a cruel fate by sacrificing his other daughter to it and risking the anger of his powerful enemies in the process. You make a case for the political wisdom of not trusting his own emotional restraint, though.
On the names:
Siri is Iris spelled backward. Iris was the goddess of the rainbow in Greek myth.
Vivenna’s name suggests words like vivacious or the exclamation “Viva!”, implying liveliness. But, viva means life. This could suggest Vivenna’s role as the person whose supposed to save her people or may be foreshadowing. Breath isn’t exactly life, but there’s some overlap.
On Austre: My first thought was Aurora, the Roman goddess of the dawn. The bright colors of the rising sun would certainly fit the god of colors. There’s also aura and aurum (gold).
It also looks like it could be a compound with any of those and luster.
Astro, another possibility, is from the Greek for star.
The name also suggests Astarte or Ishtar. While Astarte/Ishtar is best remembered as a fertility goddess, she was also a goddess of war. In one of her best known myths, she journeys into the Underworld (where her sister is married to the king) and is stripped of her clothing (representing her power) along the way. She dies and is returned to life, though she needs to find a substitute to go into the Underworld in her place (in her case, a god and goddess trade off time in the Underworld, which seems to suggest an alternate version of the winter/summer myths with a deity who spends part of the year in the land of the dead).
Without going into spoilers, this seems to foreshadow things that happen to both Siri and Vivenna over the course of the story.
I wonder how Brandon feels about Apple lifting the name Siri…
Sillyslovene@15 In Elantris only the women fence at least in the western regions.
AeronaGreenjoy@19 I feel like I should have seen this earlier but it wasn’t until your comment that I thought of Frozen and how similar those sisters are to Siri and Vivenna.
My only original thought for this chapter: I found it quite interesting that Siri can feel her hair change color.
@@@@@ 16 – The God King asks Siri that question later in the book. Her answer indicates that Austre is a different type of god. Austre is the non-corporeal entity/force that sends the Returned back.
@@@@@ 21 – I actually call my GPS Vivenna, because she’s Siri’s sister.
Greetings to everyone. I found the WoR reread a few weeks ago and am still working my way through that, but saw that a new reread of Warbreaker, one of my favorite BWS books, was starting – so here I am!
I don’t have much really to add to this discussion, but wanted to ask if anyone has any questions to ask BWS. Just found out he’s coming to my area in late November… No promises but if someone’s got a good one and there’s time… :)
@25 – Hello, fellow reread newbie!
I’m kind of jealous of the people who live in States right now. ;) I doubt Brandon would visit the country I live in more than once in… oh, a decade or so. Anyway, if you’d be so inclined, I have a question that’s been bothering me for a while now:
If a person who’s been blind since birth was healed by a Returned, by the Divine Breath, would that person differentiate between colours better or worse than the average non-Returned person?
(the purpose of the question is to figure out whether the Breath healing is based on some external standard or the perception of the healer)
@25 Speaking of blind people are they heavily discriminated against on Nathlis given how much of the world’s magic system has to do with color.
@Bellaberry: I haven’t watched Frozen, so I’ll take your word for it.
@rosharanrohirrim and Rasharr: Hi, fellow Sanderson reread newbies! I’m glad I’m not the only one.
Re: The Royal Hair changing colors – is it too early to talk about it how the royal family has that quality or will it be a spoiler to many? The royal hair is actually one of my favorite aspects of this book.
I don’t think there are restictions on spoilers here. Is that correct?
Nope, no restrictions on spoilers. If something in the chapter or subsequent discussion leads to talking about something that will happen later, go for it.
“This reread will contain spoilers for all of Warbreaker.” :)
Also, let me just say I’m delighted to see so many new folks jumping in right away. YAY!! Go, you!
@26, 27 – good question! Never considered how blindness would be a different impediment on Nalthis. I’ve never seen Brandon in person before so I’m not really sure how it will work, but I’ll make a note of that. Sounds like you can usually ask a couple? So if anyone has another question idea, feel free :) Still trying to come up with my own question that hasn’t been addressed yet and so far everything I’ve thought of I’m finding answers to (or known RAFOs LOL)
@27: or color blind/ confused people?
Red/ green mixed up and such.
I think I remember initially finding this chapter boring, especially after the prologue. Part of it was that I never really liked Siri. Her brand of irresponsibility seemed bland to me, and her struggles were never particularly compelling, perhaps because of that. Also, she smiles too much. It’s her reaction to almost everything, and it gets kind of boring.
Dedelin’s decision seemed to me like a semi-good idea at the time (politically, anyways), but I begin to think later on, with all the ramifications of his decision and the assumptions that people make about his motives, that he didn’t think this out quite enough.
“A…strong objection to pride, arrogance, or attention-seeking…sounds pretty good when you put it like that, but in practice it looks much less admirable.”
I totally agree.
@1 dashardie – Huh. I never noticed the austere/Austre similarity. Maybe I don’t think about Warbreaker enough.
@8 Braid_Tug – In Mythwalker, Siri actually served as a handmaiden to Vivenna (then named Vvenna) and at least overheard a lot of the training that she got, IIRC. So that makes it somewhat more realistic on that front.
@16 Wortmauer – Siri and Susebron have a conversation about Austre’s incorporeality in chapter 29 (starting on page 333 in the mass market paperback version).
@25 rosharanrohirrim – I have a couple questions, if that’s okay.
Is the Threnodite Homeland that the Evil took over on the same planet as Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell?
Is there any significance to how Hoid’s hair is white sometimes and black other times? Is there something more than disguise going on?
Have a nice time meeting Brandon Sanderson!
It’s always interesting how different are people’s reactions and tastes. A few commenters remarked about some negativity towards Siri because they found her personality off-putting. Well, I find her personality to be the most engaging of all the characters in Warbreaker. I have similar feelings towards Lift in the SA series. I also differ in evaluating king Dedalin’s last minute decision to send Siri to be the bride of the god-king of the threatening people of Hallandren instead of the daughter, Vivenna, whom he had long groomed for that role. It was primarily an emotional reaction expressing his greater attachment to the dutiful Vivenna than the rambunctious daughter, Siri. Not that he didn’t care about Siri, but his perceived duty and culture emphasized sacrifice for the greater good (another daughter lived as a St. Teresa type monk instead of as a princess). He was, however, more reluctant to lose Vivenna than Siri. He just didn’t put himself in his daughters’ place, both of whom were devasted by their father’s decision.
Dedalin may be a good leader, but he is a TERRIBLE FATHER.
Reading this thread, I wonder if “Austre” is also meant to make us think about Jane Austen. This is a tale of two sisters finding romantic partners among the upper crust, after all. The elder marries the more interesting, grouchier, but less wealthy one–is this Pride and Prejudice and is Vasher Darcy?
I found Siri the more sympathetic of the two sisters, and therefore her story somewhat more engaging. Both, however, spent (to my taste) too much time overcoming purely internal hurdles, rather than external. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but combined with Lightsong’s extreme passivity it made me long for more Vasher chapters where he was doing stuff. That’s often my problem with BWS stories up until a few years ago: characters dither for hundreds of pages sometimes (e. g. Sazed in the second two Mistborn novels).
@34: thank you. I’ve not read Mythwalker. Yes, some training is better than none.
@37: LoL…Vasher Darcy!!!! I have to laught at that image.
Hullo fellow newbies o/
@25 – wrong planet, because it’s a Rothar question, but – is Glys a Cultivationspren?
Might get RAFO’d
@@@@@ 37 – But Darcy’s wealthier than Bingley (ten thousand a year and landed gentry beats five thousand a year and a fortune from trade) and marries the younger sister (assuming we’re ignoring Mary, Kitty and Lydia). And Jane and Elizabeth are really close, unlike Vivenna and Siri.
I’m not convinced there’s a parallel to be found there. In Austen the grouchy men tend to be the richer ones (e.g. using the most famous three books: Darcy, Knightley, Brandon) and they tend to go rather for the more outgoing Siri-like characters (Elizabeth, Emma, Marianne) than the Vivenna ones (Jane, Harriet Smith/Jane Fairfax, Eleanor), and only a real scoundrel will stoop to the level of the most Siri-like character of them all (Wickham making do with Lydia).
If Vasher’s anyone from the mainstream English literature of that period, he’s surely Mr Rochester (with Nightblood taking the role of the mad wife in the attic).
A couple of points- I really like the prologue that is different in style than the beginning of the story- its a reminder that the story takes place in a larger world, and part of the author’s job is to fit these people into the wider world.
Also, I totally identify with the redundant daughter- as the middle child, I was often superfluous.
Weird assocation in my head that makes no logical sense but my brain stil goes there – Austre – Eostre – Easter – colored eggs – god of colors. :)
I’ve gotten super behind in following this re-read so I’ll just have to leave a few brief comments (mainly I just want to be able to follow other people’s conversations)!
But yeah, bad dad is a bad dad. Possibly a very good king and able to take the long view of what is best for his people, but clearly has favorites amongst his children. Then again, I think that is sometimes an unspoken dirty secret amongst parents. On the other hand, the fact that he couldn’t give Vivenna over – who was technically the ‘better’ choice (although of course we later see she really wouldn’t have been!) shows he already can’t let go of his attachments for the sake of his kingdom anyway.
But really, even if he had given Viv to the God King, the whole arranged marriage thing is just kind of gross and not great parenting in the first place, in my book.
@11 Bevalis reminds me of Rohan in the movie version of the Two Towers, yes it’s a rich kingdom but just very plain and backwards-like compared to other cities like Minis Tirith.